Fiona (00:08)
Welcome to Undubbed, the podcast that's unscripted, uncensored, and undeniably data. I'm Fiona.
Sarah (00:15)
And I'm Sarah, and today we're tackling something that came up loud and clear when we asked our community about their biggest non-technical challenges.
Fiona (00:26)
So we gave them four options, having difficult conversations, communicating, impact and value, career progression, and influencing stakeholders. And while the votes were actually quite evenly spread, there was one clear winner.
Sarah (00:42)
Yes, 38 % of you said communicating your impact and value. Getting people to actually understand what you do and why it matters.
Fiona (00:53)
which is why we're thrilled to have Sharon Lim joining us today. Sharon is a certified leadership and teams coach who has worked with C-suites and leadership teams across organisations to build high performing teams. She's certified in organisation relationship and systems coaching. She's a professional certified coach with the International Coaching Federation, a human centered design practitioner.
And this is the bit that we're really excited about, a certified LEGO Serious Play practitioner.
Sarah (01:28)
actually had the amazing opportunity to work with Sharon back in my financial banking days in Singapore and transformation. And what I loved most about her ability was to get you to think about things from a completely different angle.
Her coaching techniques are genuinely world-class and she has a gift for helping people open up and reframe their thinking.
Fiona (01:51)
So today we're going to explore why professionals struggle so much to communicate their value, what actually works when you're trying to articulate impact, and some practical tools that you can use immediately, including those creative approaches that you might not expect. Welcome Sharon.
Sharon Lim (02:12)
so excited. Thank you for having me here. Woohoo! Let's play! Same, same.
Sarah (02:15)
Yay! So good to see you again.
Fiona (02:18)
Yeah, let's play!
Sarah (02:22)
exciting. Before we get into the questions, remember to help us pump the algo's. Please like, subscribe and a share helps get the message out. If you're feeling generous, leave a comment on what resonated with you today.
Fiona (02:22)
Absolutely.
Okay, Sharon, we always love starting with the person behind the profession. So could you tell our listeners a bit about yourself and your journey, where you've come from and where you are today?
Sharon Lim (02:55)
how long do you have?
I think the long and short of it is I'm from Singapore, ⁓ seventh generation, I'm proud of it. And what's relevant to this topic is the fact that I am genuinely interested in people, people's stories, why people do what they do, why not do something else instead.
people behavior and so that's how I got into this vocation. And I guess, you know, I'm a natural busybody. Naturally, I'm genuinely and naturally interested in people's stories. ⁓ And I guess I, if you ask for my superpower would be, you know, people naturally feel comfortable and safe with me and open up.
And I find that fascinating because ⁓ that also gives me an inroad and an insight into people behavior.
And so for the longest time, ever since I was little, because I was always hanging out with adults, whether voluntarily or involuntarily, I was always observing people. And that got me really interested in.
guess that's how I put my skills in people and that gave me the opportunity to study communications, study coaching and you know that's how I got to where I am.
Sarah (04:33)
I think Sharon, what resonates with me, and obviously I know you professionally and personally, is your ability to really hone in on different aspects that people are maybe not realizing that are important. And I think that's something that I've seen your ability, your superpower.
Sharon Lim (04:51)
Yeah, exactly. Ooh,
my super power.
Sarah (04:55)
Yeah,
what drew you to coaching specifically with leaders, teams rather than individual coaching?
Sharon Lim (05:03)
Yeah, ⁓
Again, I saw so much struggle in leaders and teams. And I was thinking to myself, can't be this hard. And well, I'm such a sucker for the underdog. And I'm so empathetic and sometimes a bit stupid and naive maybe. And so I often, when people come to me and they share their woes and I kind of want to help them, right? ⁓
Over the years, I've come to do this in an intelligent, smart, wise, compassionate way and empathetically too.
often wondered how might I help people so they can walk away with tips and tricks and help teams realise that it's not about them, it's nobody's fault, there's no point pointing fingers like it's your fault, it's your fault, no it's the other team or you're not doing it right or whatever but rather stop, listen, be aware of themselves, know their impact and then figure out hang on.
there is a better way. And we're actually trying to do our best in our own way.
Everyone's gonna be cooperative and great and fun. I'm gonna have some love and laughter But no one's gonna go I am going to be that asshole No, I mean, I like to think that I'm sure there are some people but those are a tiny tiny minority so
Fiona (06:42)
Yeah, I mean, that's packed with so much information in there. And I think one of the interesting points that sort of really resonated with me was around, no, don't you don't just wake up and think, you know what, today's Wednesday, it's bitch day. It's definitely not like that, but it
It is possible to get triggered or to get pushed for different things to happen, but I really like that ⁓ approach that by the sounds of things that you have around helping teams to understand, let's not talk about the blame game.
it's that individual, it's that team's problem and that's the reason it's how can we, you know, work together on this to get through that resolution as well You've got this interesting mix and in the introduction I...
had to take a deep breath before I rattled off all of those amazing certifications for coaching human centered design How do all of these things come together in your practice?
Sharon Lim (07:58)
⁓ If you run through the whole, with every one of them, the bottom line and the singular word is people.
Every single thing that I have put my effort and attention into is people. Because I truly, truly, truly believe that we are all born beautiful. my take on it is, I use the metaphor of the blue sky.
We are all blue sky. And what does that mean? where there's lots of rain and there's gray clouds, or maybe you live in a very wintry climate to think that that's all there is. But what never
goes away is that there's blue sky above it. So I'm pretty sure that all our listeners have been in airplanes before. And haven't you sat by the window and looked out of the airplane when you're at the really, really high altitude And then you see this beautiful blue atmosphere. Now, where am I going with this?
My point here is that everybody will have those grey cloud days, months, years even, right? But what never goes away is that you are also that blue sky above those grey clouds. So when I go back to the certifications, you know, I go back to the understanding and the principle that we are all human.
We will have those gray clouds and we are fundamentally blue sky.
Sarah (09:44)
Mm, a lot there. And I really like that whole blue sky. And it's almost like you can rise above the storm or the cloud and those kind of rainy, horrible days, months and years that you've mentioned. And also, you know, I think sometimes, particularly in the current world that we're in with, you know, AI, can't not mention it, remembering that we are all human and we are all
Sharon Lim (10:06)
Mm.
Sarah (10:13)
all capable of that blue sky. I really like that. And I think earlier on you mentioned as well, you know, just know your impact. I think that's something that resonates with me a lot is not just your impact to yourself, to others, to teams, to environment, all of that. So yeah, that's lovely.
Sharon Lim (10:22)
Aha!
Yeah.
so there's a beautiful principle that I also follow which I learned from my ⁓ systems coaching training which is everybody's right partially. Everybody's right partially
And if we have that, then you take a deep breath and you go, oh my God, you're such an idiot to, huh, what's the 2 % truth here?
If you are right partially, what's the 2 % truth here?
Fiona (11:07)
I also think what you mentioned about hope is so important these days. mean, you just have to log on to your favorite news channel and see what's happening in the world. You just have to step into the office potentially and ⁓ get a face full of the politics that might be going on. But if we can have hope of being able to move through that and
Sharon Lim (11:26)
yeah.
Fiona (11:32)
get through things together, I think that's another thing that absolutely does bind us and does help us consider, okay, if I work with you as my teammate and I put my trust in you or my partner, and I put my trust in you that we will work through this and get through this, that you're not manipulating me or you're not doing something harmful, yes.
Sharon Lim (11:58)
You're not gas lighting me or whatever, right?
Fiona (12:01)
Yes,
then I think that hope is such a beautiful thing to have and the faith that you know that something amazing will happen
Sharon Lim (12:10)
Yeah, and I get it. mean, as I'm listening to myself and listening to you speak this, I'm also hearing the voices in my head, and there might be listeners out there going, hell no. mean, like, no way. You have not met my fill in the blanks, right? Or you don't live in my country where the politics is fill in the blanks, right? And I get that.
Sarah (12:40)
So Sharon, we polled our community about their biggest non-technical challenge. A whopping 38 % said communicating impact and value. How does that align with what you've seen in your coaching practice?
do you kind of see that as a common theme as well?
Sharon Lim (13:05)
I think what's behind the request. So if someone said, how do I communicate with impact and value? I'm listening to what's behind that. What's the desire? And what I hear is, I want to be heard. I want to be seen. I want to be valued. I want to be able to say something.
And then it's also about being heard. So it's not just the content of what I want to say, but it's also you see me and you hear me and you get where I'm going. And you may not agree with me.
But at least you've understood and you took the effort to make the time and the energy to understand me.
my point is that before you do that, have you stopped to listen for the value that someone else is sharing with you, verbally or non-verbally, and what impact?
Are you aware of that other person on you? How well do you listen? And how well are you aware of that impact on you and the people around you?
Fiona (14:24)
When this came up as the favorite topic for you to come and help our listeners with, it just threw me straight back into corporate life. It's a little bit different in startup life, but back into corporate life and everyone wants...
wants to be recognised, wants their perspective, wants to get their program funded or get their idea ahead or, you know, if they've delivered something, be recognised in a big way for that. And so it was not surprising to me that it came out as the biggest topic because I think that people feel that they have been sometimes, well, perhaps in some instances, they've been communicating these
things, maybe it's in the end of year review, or maybe they've been approaching senior leaders and they just feel like it's not sticking at all. But I think it's amazing that you're saying before you go roaring in with your story and you know.
smashing out your story everywhere, have you really sat down and listened to what are the needs of these people? What are they saying or what are they doing that's got value and what's the impact on you?
Sharon Lim (15:45)
Yeah, because
Sarah (15:47)
and as Fi
would say many a time. What is it? It's sit down and give them to a good hard listening to.
Fiona (15:52)
A good hand listening too.
Sharon Lim (15:55)
A
good, hard listener,
Fiona (15:58)
You
okay, so I've given them a good hard listening to, and maybe I'm not just going to respond straight away. Maybe I take some time before I come back, but I still want to pitch it. I still want to come back and to be able to talk to those leaders and say,
Sharon Lim (16:09)
What?
Fiona (16:18)
Here's the delivery that I've done and that's impacted the business with $1 million worth of return on investment. I could get you $5 million if you give me $300,000 worth of investment and this is what I would do.
Sharon Lim (16:32)
Yeah. So what I'm hearing you say, Fi, is this, that I have listened, but I want to rewind a little bit. How have you listened is what I'm trying to say. Have you really listened and understand your audience? Or are you listening through your own filters?
Fiona (16:41)
Yes.
Sharon Lim (17:02)
Have you stopped to clarify, ask questions?
Check in on your own assumptions.
And then go, aha, you're not a very data analytical person. You don't understand these numbers. Let me see how I can speak your language and then translate that so you could understand. Being Asian, I have had many instances around the world, less so now, where I would go to a different country, usually an English speaking country.
And then especially in the days of early 80s and stuff, they'll come to me and they go, can you speak English? Right? And I look at them and go, yes, yes, I do. they are changing the way they speak. They're still speaking in English. But there are assumptions there. Might they have asked, you know,
can you speak English? And maybe I say yes, or maybe I say no, or whatever. But there are assumptions. And it's those assumptions that trip us up. And if you can clear off the assumptions, and then go, okay, maybe you're not a data person. Maybe you don't understand.
Sarah (18:27)
Mmm.
Fiona (18:27)
Yeah,
that totally makes sense. what you're basically saying is perhaps technical people have a pattern and a behavior that they go in to talk about things in a technical way because that's the way that their minds are operating. But for the most part, the people that they're trying to influence don't think they were inclined.
Sharon Lim (18:47)
not that way. Yeah, you
give me statistics and you could literally say, you know, like it washed over my head and I'm looking at you smiling, nodding and going, what the fuck? I don't understand you. You might be speaking in a completely foreign language.
Help me, right?
Sarah (19:08)
And what I'm hearing as well is it comes back to telling a good story. And I like your suggestion on using metaphors as well, because we can find common ground in metaphors. you know, in an audience, typically there's many different types of people. We've got three different types of women on this call today alone. And, you know, you're in a room of 20, 30 people trying to find a little bit of common ground.
telling a good story about if it's your data project and then communicating that with the help of say metaphors. And I also like the piece you said around understanding almost what's in it for them. What's gonna impress them out of this.
Sharon Lim (19:55)
What's going to solve their problem? So I often ask, what keeps you up at night? what challenges do you face? So often when I want to communicate my value and impact, I ask, what is the problem? And then address that.
So for me, it's really about learning more about the audience and then delivering and understanding as much as you possibly can, understanding what is it that's...
they're facing what challenges and then when you can say hey I can help you sleep better at night they'll go ⁓ tell me more so you've already got like you've thrown the hook and then you get a catch then you kind of go ⁓ let me tell you you're reeling them in slowly slowly and so where that comes in is examples
credibility setting. So already they're hooked, right? And then now you kind of go, let me tell you some things, right? And you can obviously show impact by giving examples of how what you are proposing has helped other people.
similar to the type of people that you're speaking with, right?
I mean, if anyone's interested, are Robert Caldini has a really good book and you can also AI it on where there are persuasion skills. He calls them weapons of persuasion because you can do it either way. You can persuade people to do bad things and you can also persuade people to do good things. ⁓ And so I highly, highly recommend Robert Caldini's.
weapons of persuasion.
Sarah (21:44)
And we'll be sure to add that in the show notes below. So thanks for that, Sharon. You've mentioned before, and we were talking about the kind of blue sky and then below the blue sky, you've got the, I'm going to call it the dark and stormy area. And it's a space where people can potentially go into their shell, be spiraling and overthinking. Can you talk a little bit more about that pattern and ways that maybe people that are in there?
can get themselves back out of it.
Fiona (22:13)
Yeah, I think if I add to that, when I think about analytical type people, which are all the people that, know, in our data community, funnily enough, they have a tendency to overanalyse things that are going on, stringing data points together, pattern recognition, which then if they're gathering these data points and
Sharon Lim (22:28)
you
Fiona (22:35)
putting it through their frame of reference as well, that potentially that can get them spiraling. In some cases, it might get them to be releasing that through dysregulation, or it may actually pull them further into their shells. Do you have any kind of tips and tricks that would help people in those kinds of situations?
Sharon Lim (23:00)
This is a fabulous question. You can have a whole podcast just on this question. Now, I want to have a disclaimer. First and foremost, I'm not a therapist and I'm not a counselor and that I'm not going in that space.
So I think...
It's easy to overanalyse and it's very, very human. And I want to normalise it straight off.
And overanalysing has good gifts.
It tells me that this person is cautious, doesn't want to create mess, wants to ensure that everybody's okay, we don't have to waste time and effort,
And so I ask, first and foremost, if you're aware and you get into that, Sarah, you call it the funk, right? It's...
Hallelujah! You actually realise you're in a funk. Fabulous! Great! Now you know that you're in shits and you need to get out.
So now you have choice. What do I want to do? Do I want to stay in this funky space or do I want to get out? Right? So first, normalise. It's perfectly fine. You're absolutely human. B, you know you're in a funk. Hallelujah, you're actually now realizing it. Great. Now, what are you going to do? Talk to a friend. This is like, you know, who wants to be a millionaire, right? Call a friend.
Fiona (24:44)
You
Sharon Lim (24:46)
choose some options, right? So here's your who wants to be a millionaire options, right?
call somebody you absolutely trust and see how you can go from there. And ideally, not have someone who over-analyses your over-analytical mind and deepens that funk continuously. So you want to have someone who is neutral, who is on the outside, can pull you out.
Sarah (25:17)
I remember having a bit of a mantra at one of my jobs a while ago. was a little bit of, is anyone going to die if this delivery doesn't go out? And in banking, I would say typically no. No one dies with that.
Fiona (25:32)
You
Sharon Lim (25:36)
I want to acknowledge that easy as it may sound, it's not, it's not easy to let go. Especially when it's close to your heart and you, you know, you live and breathe it. It's so important to you. It's really hard to let go. And that's why it helps to call for a friend.
Fiona (25:59)
As we've been going through, a lot of the things that you have suggested are aligned with a sense of self-care.
Sharon Lim (26:12)
Because I'm going to be rubbish as a data analyst or a data scientist or a data anything or anything for that matter if I'm in a funk, if I'm right in the middle of shitsville.
Fiona (26:29)
No one likes to be in shitville.
Sharon Lim (26:30)
I'm not gonna do this.
to be useful to anybody much less my friends, my family, myself. So it always always starts with self. I know that sounds selfish but it's not. It's seriously not. Yeah.
Sarah (26:42)
you
And I think just in terms of letting go, and I have often spoken about things that we've built in our past careers that have been amazing. you know, we've had to let elements go and in some respects kind of watch them crash and burn a little bit from the sidelines. And it is really hard. It's hard to let that go. you know, Fi had a dream last night about,
part of an element, you know? it's so, it's like, and this is years later.
Fiona (27:21)
We obviously had a really honest kind of conversation and check-in and I'm like, had a nightmare last night. This is what happened. I was made redundant and at the same time they sent me to another country business class to go on a swim meet but I didn't bring my but I didn't bring my togs.
Sharon Lim (27:47)
What'd do?
Fiona (27:48)
⁓ I was just there to talk to people. I wanted to go and network with them at the end of the day. And I think when we talked about it, it's a lot of that kind of still hangover of different things that actually happen in your past. And that's really good to work with someone who it's okay to talk about, gee, last night was a rough sleep.
Sharon Lim (28:13)
and you got it off your chest and that's it.
Fiona (28:15)
got it off, actually, while
we were going for a walk, actually. So we kick off our morning this morning with our meeting as a walk. And we just sat there and chatted about all the things that we had going on today. And obviously what happened last night.
Sharon Lim (28:19)
Please.
Sarah (28:32)
Now Sharon, I know it's been a while since you've done Lego set, so Sharon, I know it's been a while since your Lego serious play certification, but could you tell us a little bit about it? Cause we're dying to know.
Fiona (28:52)
We kind of like Lego. Can you see?
Sharon Lim (28:52)
I
Sarah (28:53)
Yeah.
Sharon Lim (28:54)
⁓ well, first and foremost, I come from an all-boy. I live in an all-male household, I've got three boys and a husband. Some would say four boys. when they were little, I would be stepping on Lego bricks all over the house. ⁓ Eggs. ⁓
Sarah (29:11)
Nothing hurts as much as a Lego brick.
Sharon Lim (29:16)
And we have stacks upon stacks and stacks of bricks all over the place. My point here is this. I found it to be a beautiful experiential way of shutting down the analytical mind and using our hands. How often do we use our hands nowadays apart from typing on the keyboard and moving the mouse?
I mean, we don't do work. Well, maybe some of us do, but most people don't or make a cake or something. And even then you just chuck everything in your mixer or something. So Lego helps that body-mind connection. It's visually beautiful because it's so colorful and they're all these little bits and bobs like a flower or a tree or a helmet or something. And you go, ooh, aha.
it really brings out the child in us. And even if, even if we've never, never played with Lego when we were little, inevitably there is that element of childlike-ness. Now that is a fabulous space, mind space by that, I mean, where creativity flows, new ideas come up, aha moments, self-realizations, insights come up.
right? So that's one aspect. The second aspect is when you're doing Lego, a lot of the times when I have done the workshops, they're playing with this pile of bricks of all kinds of colors and there's bits and bobs all over the place. Now often they are given a prompt, a question. It could be like, what does your team look like? Or you know, what is your life?
look like in a year's time. At the end of 2026, what does it look like? know, build something. And because you are limited by what you have in front of you, whatever bricks you have, then you've got to make up stories. And that uses a different part of the brain, right? I won't go into the details, but it uses a completely different part of the brain. And you have to make up like, ⁓ this yellow two by two means, you know, that
got a car or you know this is my little hatchback that I've saved up for or something right so then you start to make stories and you start to create and you start to create from nothing and that stimulates other parts of your brain and more interventions come in and when you do this as a team different people have different interpretations of say what does the team look like
And so you're hearing people's stories and storytelling is such an ancient way of communicating and creating that relationship and bond. So since caveman time, we all sit around the fire and we tell stories and that's how we connect with each other. And so bring it back.
to 2026 where instead of a fire, you've got plastic bricks and you're telling stories. And there's a magic that happens there.
Fiona (32:54)
Storytelling is a really important part of a data visualisation expert's toolbox. They're really looking to draw people through a visualisation and at times annotate it with storytelling, but also sometimes the pictures tell a thousand words themselves.
Sharon Lim (33:00)
Mm-hmm.
Absolutely.
Fiona (33:12)
So I'm sure that some of these themes will definitely resonate as people draw those two areas together. One area that I hear that you're passionate about is radical candor, sort of being direct and honest while still being kind. How does that apply when you're trying to advocate for yourself?
Sharon Lim (33:33)
But this is just my opinion.
What we say, how we say, to whom we say and when we say is very important. So radical candor often people assume it to be, gosh you're looking fat today.
No, that's not radical candor
It comes from both being challenging directly and caring personally.
And it's also knowing when, and it's not just these two things to think about. I think that there's so many more.
variables to think about. It's the timing. When do you say this?
You know, if it's said when the person is truly softened and listening, then yeah, the message is going to land. But if it's said when the person is still heated and angry or emotional, it's not going to land the way you want it to land. This person's not going to hear your caring personally. They're just going to yo, ⁓ whoa, that's a, you're such an asshole. You say it. So I think it's really important to consider that.
Fiona (35:00)
So thank you for walking us through that. I was wondering specifically, how do you apply it when you're trying to advocate for yourself? mm-hmm.
Sharon Lim (35:09)
for yourself. Yeah,
Again, I go back to self-management.
So say somebody says something and it's triggering you. And you know that your data
speaks for itself. It's showing a picture and you're feeling really really passionate that this is the thing that you want to advocate for and you're not being heard or maybe you're not being understood and you're probably boiling inside. and you kind of go no no no no you're not listening to me you're not understanding wait wait wait wait you're right so a watch yourself and then
That's why I say breathing. I laugh about it, but actually breathing really, really helps. Pause and breathe. Is this the right time for the person to hear you? Whatever radical thing you want to say, a candid thing that you want to say, is he or she in a head space that's...
ripe for listening and understanding. Right. That's don't do that. Now, then the second thing is, are you clear and concise with what you want to say? And are you coming from the intention of I'm right, you're wrong, mister or miss?
Because if you're coming from that space, no one's going to listen. Nobody wants to be proven wrong. Unless they're super mature and they're open to that, you know, to listening at different points of view. But if you're going to go, I'm telling you this because I'm right and you're wrong and you have that superior. Yeah, then nah. So.
If you want to push for yourself and there is some radical candor to it, remember radical candor is not just challenging directly, it is caring personally. It's not about yourself. It's about the greater good, in service of the organisation, in service of the project, in service of
Whatever it is, that's not you.
Sarah (37:28)
was listening to a podcast the other day and it was talking about when you listen to someone and quite often people say, yes, but. So it's very defensive straight away. So it's, it's almost like sometimes it's changing small things like that and saying, I understand you and rather than just saying, I hear what you say, but.
and then kind of going off on your own tangent. It's like, I understand what you're saying and I feel this as well. it's almost because there are situations where there is a difference and there's always going to be a difference. And it's kind of a case of you're never going to agree, but you're going to have to meet at some stage to continue on the same path.
Sharon Lim (38:07)
yeah
And you know, when I hear someone say to me, I understand, but I get so triggered. Especially when they say I understand, but because what I'm hearing and in my brain, I'm thinking, no, you don't understand because there's a but at the end of it. And don't come and tell me that you understand when you actually don't understand. Beep beep.
Fiona (38:49)
Hahaha
Sharon Lim (38:50)
Exclamation
lot, exclamation lot, right? ⁓ So.
I think what you're alluding to, Sarah, is the yes and. And I go back to another principle I love taking on is look for, listen for the 2 % truth.
not the 98%, you don't even have to even agree, but is there 2 % of truth in whatever this other person is saying? And then acknowledge, yeah, that's that tiny, tiny 2%, that's the yes. I'm saying yes to that 2%. And I'm adding my 98 % to that. But when, what that happens is someone
psychologically it feels more open and I get that 98 % of the time you don't agree. That's cool.
If you take the effort to listen for that 2 % truth, and really I mean take the effort, not pretend, not go through the motions of, understand but not that, right? Then you got something going.
Fiona (40:06)
Ha
there's no easier way to shut someone down than say yes but. There's no easier way. All it does is immediately say, it actually says to me when someone says yes but, it's not a yes or you're telling me that I'm wrong, I'm wrong around it. And I think it's that negative side that really then puts,
puts a halt on things moving forward. No longer are we looking at each other like shoulder to shoulder colleagues. We are then opposing sides and in conflict.
⁓ And so it makes it very difficult to then work towards how we can get through these things or get to the best outcome, which is it might be a little bit from column A and it might be a little bit from column B, or it might be just column B once A's had an opportunity to actually understand the other side.
Yeah, those little tiny changes would be a great thing for people to practice. you know, things, ways that help me practice things I write, ⁓ I write, I write little notes on my screen. So this one says be kind to yourself.
Sarah (41:27)
your Post-It Notes.
Sharon Lim (41:33)
Ooh, ⁓ I got one, I got one. I've got one. This one.
Fiona (41:42)
⁓ I love that. The universe has got my back. Whatever, I...
Sarah (41:46)
What's in the subtext there, Sharon?
Sharon Lim (41:47)
Huh?
Whatever I choose will yield results. Whether or not the result I want is another story, but it will yield results. Yeah, but the universe has got my
Fiona (41:52)
Yeah.
And so I think if people want to try and practice getting into the yes ands, particularly if they're working from home, popping something at the top of the screen next to the camera as a great way, as a reminder to come in and really think about how can I adjust how I'm responding to people.
Sharon Lim (42:25)
Yeah,
adding on to your practical tips. I would have the big, like big bold letters in a post-it, pause, breathe.
Fiona (42:37)
Yes.
Sharon Lim (42:37)
Because
I would jump into things. I would assume stuff. I would shoot my mouth and then regret it. And so for the longest time, I had pause, full stop, breathe, full stop.
Fiona (42:51)
Listen.
Sharon Lim (42:52)
Ooh, nice. Nice.
Sarah (42:55)
I had perfect
isn't done.
Sharon Lim (42:58)
There you go.
Fiona (43:00)
How do you build influence when you're not in a formal leadership or management position, but you need people to understand the importance of your work or what you're suggesting? What advice do you give people?
Sharon Lim (43:15)
So I have never had a leadership position, like authority placed on me. And so all my corporate life, I've had to influence without authority. So I would like to say that I'm quite credible in speaking and answering this question.
I think it goes back to what we've been speaking for the past hour.
self-manage, know who I am, what is it that I want to say, why do I want to say what I want to say, what's important about that to me, right? And then know my audience. What is it that that's troubling them? What challenges do they face? How do they speak? What is important? What's important to them? What's challenging them?
How do they process information? There is a high chance they process it differently from the way I deliver it. Yeah, so I need to know how they think. And then I need to tailor it, so I speak their language, quote unquote language, yeah? And match their personality. So.
I'm extroverted, I love talking as you can feel, you know, I'm high energy and all that. But if I have somebody who's introverted, speaks slowly, needs time to think, I switch, my voice gets softer, I speak more slowly, and I match their way of being. Now, am I being inauthentic? No.
I don't think so. think I'm feeling I'm being more respectful because I don't think someone like that would want me to get at them. So it's respecting who they are and matching them where they are and then tailoring the message accordingly. And then you gain trust. And then when you gain trust, it doesn't matter whether you've got the authority.
In fact, it's better that you don't have the authority, because you're not some big boss that said, I told you to do this, and therefore you shall. Right? But rather, huh, I trust you.
And therefore, I will take whatever you have to offer or to communicate into consideration. And because of that, I am very grateful that I've been managing, I managed to influence, persuade people. And sometimes I don't even have to do that. They come to me and ask for my opinion or ask me to...
you know, help them out in a project or something. So if you know, if you genuinely care for the other person and if your intent is to help and be in service of the greater good, you will naturally gain trust.
And when you gain trust, you do not need authority.
Sarah (46:49)
Yeah, so much to unpack there, you know, knowing your value and knowing your impact, building, building that trust, talking to people, like really understanding your audience. And I love that, that piece around, you know, almost mirroring them and they kind of volume in a way and making sure yeah, the energy. Yeah.
Sharon Lim (47:14)
energy, right? Yeah.
I can't emphasise storytelling and showing examples because if it's concrete, it's relevant, I can relate to it.
Fiona (47:31)
For sure. Well, Sharon, this has been such an insightful conversation. Thank you for sharing your expertise with us today and helping our community think differently about how they communicate their value.
Sarah (47:46)
For everyone listening, if you're struggling to articulate your impact, remember it's not about dumbing down what you do. It's about reframing in a way that connects to your audience and what they actually care about. And sometimes that requires listening a lot more, getting creative with your approach to the conversation.
Sharon Lim (48:09)
love to hear what other people's perspectives are and their way of doing this too because you know it's always a process of learning and so we all learn from each other.
Fiona (48:20)
You can connect with Sharon on LinkedIn and we'll make sure that we put that link in the show notes.
Sarah (48:27)
If you've enjoyed today's episode please like, subscribe and most importantly share this with someone who needs to hear it. We all know someone who's brilliant at what they do but struggle to communicate it.
Fiona (48:40)
And until next time, stay curious, keep exploring your data and remember, your work matters. Now go make people know about it.
Sarah (48:50)
This has been Undubbed, where we are unscripted, uncensored, and undeniably data. Thanks for being here, Sharon.
Sharon Lim (48:57)
Thank you!
